Podcast Overview
“What could’ve been a five-minute conversation with a human has now taken 30 minutes and made me angry.”
In this episode of eCom@One with Richard Hill, the spotlight turns to AI’s real-world impact on the eCommerce landscape. Richard hands the reins to Kieran Wright and Damian Duke, who dive deep into where AI genuinely adds value beyond the hype. Listen in as they discuss how AI is speeding up processes, enhancing research and strategy, and revolutionising workflows, while also exploring its limitations, ethical considerations and the irreplaceable role of human insight. Whether you want to refine your operations, improve content, or simply make smarter decisions about AI tools, this episode is packed with practical advice and candid opinions, helping you cut through the noise and harness AI where it matters most.
And remember “The trick is: I actually don’t know what I’m talking about, but if I say it in this tone of voice…” We’re joking, kind of!
Hit subscribe, and let’s get started!
Time Stamps:
00:00 Exploring practical AI in business
04:44 Skepticism about chatbots in retail
07:13 Using AI as a thinking partner
10:17 Discussing AI tool reliance
15:05 Discussing AI and ethical concerns
18:12 Caution with AI data privacy
22:20 Clients pushing for AI in reviews
23:16 Evaluating AI tools for clients
27:03 Shifting roles in agency teams
30:10 Recommending a YouTube channel
Kieran Wright [00:00:00]:
How can we rank in these AI reviews? What are the factors to rank in these AI reviews? We want to be seen in the AIO reviews because it was the most prominent, you know, part of the SERP for these high funnel queries.
Damian Duke [00:00:09]:
Is it just making things faster or is it changing things in a more meaningful way?
Kieran Wright [00:00:13]:
I'm not so sure that it is. I don't think that you're going to necessarily change people's behavior quickly enough.
Damian Duke [00:00:19]:
We're seeing the way that people are using AI is very much like the top of the funnel.
Kieran Wright [00:00:23]:
But how's it actually showing up in your work right now? Like, what does it look like here at the agency?
Damian Duke [00:00:28]:
If I can use AI to speed up that process, that gives me more time then to actually analyse it and think, right, where are our opportunities for customers then? And how can we use this?
Kieran Wright [00:00:38]:
What might be the most useful tools out there versus what's a more kind of gimmicky approach?
Damian Duke [00:00:44]:
A million AI tools there. It's about, yeah, refining how you use it and making sure you're getting the best out of it.
Kieran Wright [00:00:51]:
If there was one AI use case I could remove from existence today, it would be.
Richard Hill [00:01:01]:
Hey everyone, Richard Hill here. Welcome back to the eCom@One podcast. Today I'm handed over the reins again to two of the team here at eComOne, Kieran Wright, our head of technical, and Damian Duke, one of our lead strategists. In this episode, they get into where AI is genuinely useful today, where it still feels overhyped, and how businesses should really be thinking about using it. Whether that's for research, strategy, content, workflows, operations, or the wider e commerce experience. This episode is all about using AI to work smarter and move faster, but without losing the originality, judgment and human thinking that still make the biggest difference. So if you're trying to make sense of AI in a practical way rather than just getting lost in the hype, this episode is well worth a listen. Now do me one quick favor, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening, so you never miss an episode.
Richard Hill [00:01:52]:
Let's dive in.
Kieran Wright [00:01:55]:
Damon, is this your first appearance on the E Commerce One podcast?
Damian Duke [00:01:58]:
It is. I'm very excited to be here.
Kieran Wright [00:02:00]:
Do you think you've got the deepest voice of any guests that's ever been on the podcast? So from what Dan was saying, like my tinny, high pitched voice, booming, booming, voiceover voice, commanding.
Damian Duke [00:02:13]:
I feel like I'm putting on a voice specifically for this podcast because I
Kieran Wright [00:02:18]:
think that was the same energy that you brought to The Econ one live and uncut event where you were in charge of the. The bell and, you know, rousing people, getting them through into the, into the room.
Damian Duke [00:02:28]:
See, I think that was a different type of energy.
Kieran Wright [00:02:30]:
That was different.
Damian Duke [00:02:30]:
I think for the live event needed to be very loud and booming.
Kieran Wright [00:02:36]:
Yeah.
Damian Duke [00:02:37]:
Whereas for a podcast, see, they deeper, more mellow.
Kieran Wright [00:02:41]:
Yeah. Sort of like the kind of thing you could, you could fall asleep to just drift off listening to the smooth tones of Damian.
Damian Duke [00:02:48]:
If you'd like me to whisper sweet nothings into your ear on an evening, Kieran, I am available.
Kieran Wright [00:02:53]:
I don't think I could afford your rates. So you've got a voice where you're going to be commanding, you're going to be telling us, you're going to be laying down some home truths. And what better, what better sort of person to have on the podcast than someone who's going to, you know, speak with such authority on the topic of AI?
Damian Duke [00:03:10]:
See, the trick is I actually don't know what I'm talking about, but if I say it in this tone of voice.
Kieran Wright [00:03:16]:
Yeah, you say it with confidence. Yeah. So, Damian, you're here to talk about AI, But I think before we do, well, we're going to have a discussion about AI, aren't we? Today we're going to chat through AI Normally it's like a kind of back and forth with Richard and a guest. Damian. Damian are going to be here. Damian, you're. Was it SEO strategist.
Damian Duke [00:03:33]:
Yes. A lead strategist here at the agency.
Kieran Wright [00:03:35]:
Yep. And yeah, I'm here as head of technical and we're just gonna have a bit of a chat back and forth about AI and how we're using at the agency and stuff like that. And you know, we're having a bit of a conversation earlier, Damian, about, you know, what we're going to talk about today. And I think you. You had some questions. I had some questions. So if you wanted to, you know, get us started, I think you were gonna talk about our sort of takes on AI right now.
Damian Duke [00:03:56]:
Yeah, Kieran. So what I think would be great is if we could get your honest take on AI right now. You know, how's it changing things in E Commerce? Is it just making things faster or is it changing things in a more mean.
Kieran Wright [00:04:07]:
That's a very good question, Damian. It's almost like we pre prepared for this, isn't it? I couldn't have written a better question myself. No, generally, I think on the customer facing side, I think a lot of the AI stuff that we've seen in E commerce has maybe been a little bit on the, on the gimmicky side. So you know, I've seen a lot around like AI search and you know, the ability to search catalog with natural language. It's really clever. It's, it's really good stuff. But I think from a like customer perception side is that really going to change user behavior? Is that really going to make someone's purchasing decision? I'm not so sure that it is. I don't think that you're going to necessarily change people's behavior quickly enough.
Kieran Wright [00:04:44]:
It's maybe something for the future but I just don't see it having a massive impact. I think as well like the agentic checkouts and like universal commerce protocol and everything like that that we've seen announced by Shopify and Google. Really clever tech behind that. It's really good partnership. Obviously there's a lot of sort of talk about that but I think again it's that shift in user behavior. Like are we really at a point where people are going to be carrying out the entire transaction through a chatbot? I'm not so sure that we are. I don't think that necessarily customers have the trust in it maybe to kind of carry out a complete purchase for them. And I appreciate, you know, the safeguards in there and you know, you see what you're buying beforehand and stuff like that.
Kieran Wright [00:05:23]:
But I just don't think we're at the point where it's kind of driving user behavior. Yeah. Where I think it's really making an impact like as in making a sort of solid business impact. Today is on the kind of more drudgery side of things on the kind of back end. So things like logistics management, sort of stock predictions. So predicting when you're going to need to reorder an item based on when it's going to sell. Things like price comparisons with your, with your competitors. I think that's, that's a really good use case and I think that's where it's having an impact.
Kieran Wright [00:05:52]:
There's also the customer service side of things, although be careful with that. I think we've all had an email from, from a company where we're not sort of super convinced that it was written by a person and it wasn't the best customer experience. But I think that's what's really having the impact in terms of time save, cost save and everything like that. I don't know if you think there's anything else maybe from your side on the E commerce space.
Damian Duke [00:06:13]:
Yes, I think you make some great points there about customer and user behavior. I think we're seeing the way that people are using AI is very much like the top of the funnel. You know, they're asking questions, they're doing their research rather than clicking through blogs and spending hours looking through different things to find the best of something or what products is going to best suit their needs. They're kind of asking AI those, those higher level questions. And then, yeah, coming in through, you know, search engines like Google, a bit lower down the funnel, they've made the decision of what product they're looking for. Now they're looking for the best place to buy it from.
Kieran Wright [00:06:47]:
No, absolutely agree. So I guess that's on the, the kind of E commerce side and the merchant side and the customer facing side. But in terms of us here at the agency, your role obviously as lead strategist, I'm sure you've come across lots of use cases for AI, but how's it actually showing up in your work right now? What does it look like here at the agency? Kind of how's that making a difference for the clients and for the work that you are doing here at Econ 1?
Damian Duke [00:07:13]:
Yeah, so I think one of the main ways we've been using it in terms from a strategy perspective is kind of using AI as a bit of like a thinking partner. So it enables us to, you know, test out different ideas, test some of our assumptions and we can kind of explore more angles and a lot quicker than traditionally. And then from a content point of view, you know, as you kind of mentioned before, using it to do some of the checklist things to sort of like outline briefs, but not necessarily writing the content. We're still using humans to add that personal touch and that unique perspective to all of our content. So yeah, it's great at kind of sort of spotting gaps in some of our research as well. I think one of the things that
Kieran Wright [00:08:04]:
we
Damian Duke [00:08:07]:
avoid is kind of AI copy with a light edit. We see that a lot. Everyone can create average content now, let's be honest, we've all got access to the same tools and you can do that and it's sort of okay. From top level point of view it'll perform fine, but strategically it's very hollow.
Kieran Wright [00:08:26]:
Yeah. Do you think there's. I think one of the things I've been seeing is that like there's a bit of a difference, isn't there, between like AI can create things in seconds that, you know, used to take hours, but there's a big difference right between creating something in seconds that is immediately obvious as AI and just like lacks all quality, really, and, you know, taking a bit longer. So, you know you're still saving a ton of time, right. You're still doing something maybe in sort of half an hour. That used to take several hours. But there's a big difference, right, between taking a bit more time, refining the AI process, adding that human touch, and getting like, higher quality output versus, you know, just running through one prompt into the chatbot of your choice.
Damian Duke [00:09:05]:
And yeah, I mean, it's. Yeah, people take. Take an output from AI and they go, okay, I'll remove the EM dashes and then it won't sound like it's been written by AI, but we know that there's a lot more to it than that. And let's be honest, whenever you're starting something, the hardest thing is starting with a bank page. So if you can use AI to give you that Lego, give you that starting point, and then, yeah, really refine it from there and add your unique tone of voice, add your own ideas and perspective, that's kind of where the value is.
Kieran Wright [00:09:32]:
Absolutely. And you think over time as well, people will become more and more attuned to, like, what AI content looks like and kind of spot it a bit more. Because I know at the minute in this space, obviously we're looking at this kind of stuff all the time, and I'm sure the listeners probably are too. So it's probably quite obvious to a lot of people listening, like, what AI content looks like. But do you think that's going to kind of spread more widely so that it will become very easily spotted sort of among the general audience?
Damian Duke [00:09:58]:
Yeah, to be honest, I think that's already starting to happen. If I speak to, like, my friends that from outside of, like, marketing and E commerce, you know, it's not just us that are using these tools, everyone's kind of using it. And I think, yeah, that is kind of quickly becoming the case where, like I said, everyone's becoming more attuned to it. They go, you can spot it from a mile away.
Kieran Wright [00:10:17]:
Yeah, it's not just about the EM dash anymore. So in terms of the tools I know we're talking about as well, sort of what might be the most useful tools out there versus what's a more kind of gimmicky approach. And I think where I kind of landed on that sort of after thinking about it, was that a lot of these tools out there, there's a lot of, not very clever, too many for us to list. Really. And you know, they're changing so rapidly that if by the time I've given an example and the podcast has been edited and uploaded, they're going to be out of date anyway. But at their core, a lot of them are just like wrappers for the kind of main models, your chatgpt, your claws, your Geminis, et cetera. So I think, you know, what we've kind of settled on at an agency is rather than kind of chasing the latest tool and trying to kind of keep up to date with this never ending stream of new tools coming out and you know, you get one onboarded, you start using it and then by the time you're kind of making them most of it, there's a new one that's come out that's a lot better. We've been kind of leveraging just the kind of core models and you know, improving our workflows with those.
Kieran Wright [00:11:17]:
Because although the kind of pace of innovation there is still rapid, you know, with the new models coming out on, you know, like say Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini, they're all kind of almost at parity. So once you, I think once you get your workflow down with one of these main models, barring any kind of shift, and I'm sure I've jinxed myself now and that's going to go ahead and happen next week and they'll look incredibly out of date that I think once you've got your workflow down with one of these models, they're close enough that you can kind of keep refining your process and you know, keep getting the gains rather than constantly chasing new tools. So Claude's currently our preferred model at the agency for a lot of workflows. But if you're currently working with say ChatGPT or Gemini or something like that, that's not to say you can't achieve good results. It's more about the process and how you work with the models. Which kind of leads back to what you were saying around. Don't just stick a prompt in and you know, copy paste the output and call it a day u use them in a lot more of a refined way.
Damian Duke [00:12:13]:
Definitely. I think it's, yeah, refining how you use them and using them in the best way, in the best way possible. I think everyone's got access to the same tools now. I mean, if we take like a Shopify store, for example, if you look in Shopify, there's a million AI tools there. Like you said, they're all just a wrapper working around an existing model. So it's About. Yeah, refining how you use it and making sure you're getting the best out of it and not just kind of doing what everyone else.
Kieran Wright [00:12:38]:
Absolutely that. And I know we're talking about whether there's any that are overhyped. And I don't want to kind of go out there and, you know, say, oh, this tool's overhyped. That tool's overhyped. But I think if there was one AI use case I could remove from existence today, it would be AI chatbots. I hate them. I hope I'm not the only one that feels this, but, you know when you go on a website and there's a little icon at the bottom right. I'm trying to keep myself restrained here because I get quite animated about this topic.
Kieran Wright [00:13:08]:
But you see that, damn, there'll be like a little face or something like that, and you think, oh, no, I know what's coming here. And then you see, you know, you're just sort of trying to scroll through the site, you know, find your way through the category hierarchy, and then you see that pop up of like, hey, I'm. Whatever they've called it, they've always got some name right to try and personify them. And I think it just. It just irritates me to no end. I don't know if you find it too. I've never once been helped by one. I've never once, on the customer service side, had my question answered by one in a satisfactory way.
Kieran Wright [00:13:39]:
They've just made me more annoyed because I've just had to type in human, meet a human, send me to a human, refer me to the human. I hate them. I don't know. Is there any tool that you would remove from the face of the earth, or would you also just get rid of the AI? Please get rid of AI chatbots. If you run an E commerce store, if you have an AI chatbot doing your customer service, or if you have an AI chatbot trying to funnel people to it, please remove it or send them to me. Kieran Wright on LinkedIn if you think you've got a good use case, because I'm genuinely curious. If anyone's got a good one, please send them to me. If you think you do otherwise, get rid of them from your website.
Kieran Wright [00:14:07]:
They're super annoying. Yeah. Do you have anything?
Damian Duke [00:14:08]:
I think one of the problems with AI chatbots as well is that when you actually then do get through to a human, you struggle to believe that you're actually talking to a human being because you spent so long trying to get through to it, get through an AI and it's whether it's on a website or even over the phone. Now they started using them to get through like IVRs and actually answer calls. And it's just, I just need to speak to an actual human being. You can help me with my question.
Kieran Wright [00:14:31]:
Yeah, just put me through the person.
Damian Duke [00:14:33]:
And what could have been a 5, 10 minute chat with someone has taken me three times as long and now I'm super annoyed about it.
Kieran Wright [00:14:41]:
Yes, I'm already angry because the AI chatbot sucks anyway. That's other than implementing chatbots on a website, which is, I think we can all agree, very unethical. Do you, do you ever stop and think when, when we're, you know, using AI with what we've been talking about here? Do you ever stop and think on the ethical side of things? Is, is this right? Should we actually be doing this? Should we pause? Do you ever kind of get that, that sort of thought across your mind?
Damian Duke [00:15:05]:
So I think from an ethics perspective, this is obviously a bit of a tricky question. There's obviously a lot of debate around AI and ethics. But I think ultimately if we're, if the way we're using AI is going to help refine it further, then I think that's a good thing. I think if using AI is allowing us or freeing up time to allow us time for deeper thinking and analysis, then again, I think that's great. If we're able to sort of automate some of the, the processes that might have taken a while before so we can look at the bigger picture stuff, that's really great. I think one of the things that we do need to be cautious of is more around like data and customer data side of things. If you're feeding customer data, behavior data, et cetera, into an AI, does the person who that data belongs to, do they fully understand how it's being used? But I think ultimately, so long as we're using it in an ethical way, then I think, you know, progress is always going to happen and we just need to make sure that, you know, we're, we're doing our best to ensure that it progresses in the, in the right way.
Kieran Wright [00:16:21]:
Yeah, so you're trying to be like a, like a good actor in the space, use it in the right way rather than just sort of saying we're not going to use this hardline stance, but then you're losing out to competitors anyway who are using it. And just to be clear, you mentioned earlier about using AI to refine the process. I take it you mean kind of refine the process from our strategy standpoint rather than refining the AI model, for example?
Damian Duke [00:16:44]:
Yeah, so, yeah, refining it from a strategy process point of view, like you said. So it might have taken me an hour or two to look through a spreadsheet of data. If I can use AI to speed up that process, that gives me more time then to actually analyse it and think, right, where are our opportunities for customers then, and how can we use this?
Kieran Wright [00:17:04]:
Yes, it's about making more of your time so that, you know, rather than it being spent doing this kind of tedious kind of data pipelining and things like that, you're actually looking for insights. And that's a really good point. And I think in terms of like, we were talking about whether there's any, any moments where AI would have been maybe quicker or cheaper, but we've decided against using it for hesitation reasons or for ethical reasons. And I think we're landed on that. Obviously, it's difficult because when you're faced with a technology that can make things faster and can allow you to do more with your time, it's very tempting to throw everything at it. And I think where we've had pause is in terms of, like you said, you know, confidential data. You know, we work with a lot of different businesses and, you know, as, as part of that, we like to see ourselves as kind of a close partner. And, you know, when you're in a close partnership with a business in that way, you are sort of privy to, you know, information that might not be available publicly or, you know, sensitive sort of business and commercial information.
Kieran Wright [00:18:12]:
And I think that's where you have to be very cautious around what you're kind of connecting these AI tools up to or what you're kind of putting into these models. Because, you know, at the end of the day, you've been entrusted with this data, and if you can, you know, be sure that that data is secure with you, then I think you shouldn't really be reckless with that. And in terms of like, just, you know, let's put all of this business information into model. So even though you might be able to unlock an extra insight, maybe, I think that's where you need to have pause and sort of take a step back. And I think that's where we've seen some of the initial hype that there was with something like openclaw when it came out versus now a lot more stories of like, hey, here's some rather dramatic situations where it's kind of either leaked my data or deleted Data, to be clear, it's openclaw, if you're not familiar with it, is a kind of an AI automation tool. I guess you could think of it as an AI assistant. Um, and there's been some stories around people giving access to their emails, and it's deleted so many thousands of emails from their inbox and things like that. So I think that's where we'd maybe.
Kieran Wright [00:19:18]:
Where we maybe have pause on the. On the kind of ethical side, but I guess going beyond the kind of ethics of AI, do you think on a quality side, from, from your perspective, AI is kind of raising the bar in terms of the quality of content out there or quality of SEO work that's taking place in the market, or do you think it's sort of lowering it and creating like a race to the bottom? I suppose, as it were, yes.
Damian Duke [00:19:42]:
I think that's a great question, Kieran. And if I'm being completely honest, I think it's a little bit of both. We could say that or use the phrase lower in the bar, but I quite like the phra. The phrase the floor is rising, but really the ceiling is originality and AI can't get you there. I think the winners are going to be those that use AI rather than to generate ideas and point of views, the ones that use it to kind of execute them more. So utilising AI to get the ball rolling, but then adding that human element of your own perspective, unique data insights and kind of leveraging, you know, your expertise as a business or as a person.
Kieran Wright [00:20:24]:
No, I absolutely agree. And I think I. When I was thinking about this, I kind of likened it to what the likes of platforms like Shopify did to E commerce, where it made it a lot easier to get a store that was performant, it looked good, it was hard to make it look terrible compared to some of the stores we've seen previously. And the payment methods were all covered off. It was very easy then to set up an E Commerce store and it, like you say, raised the floor. But at the same time, there's still the Shopify stores and the Shopify stores. There's still ways to stand out in that market. I think, unfortunately for us as an agency, it made things more difficult to stand out.
Kieran Wright [00:21:04]:
But I think in other ways that became a bit of a strength, because if you are able to stand out, then I think you can really drive good results. Because if everyone's using the same AI tools, you have to find the way to stand out and that becomes your strategy, which I think is one of the Real strengths that we have as an agency. It's on the strategy side and on the people side. So I think that becomes a really good way to, to stand out. And I was kind of thinking, you know, you can go into a chat bot right now and say, generate me and SEO strategy for my store and give me the, you know, 10 things I need to work on immediately. You'll get a really thorough response back and I guarantee that if you know the same store owner, ask you to do that, it would take you longer. Right. Is just going to.
Kieran Wright [00:21:46]:
But yours is going to be, you know, 100 times better because you're going to have taken the time to really thoroughly understand their business and understand the market.
Damian Duke [00:21:54]:
I think the thing with that is as well is you can go, like you said, you can go in and you can ask the AI to give me an SEO strategy for my E commerce store. And it will give you one. It will be quite detailed and it will cover all the main points. But all of your competitors are going to ask the same question of an AI bot and they're all going to get the same answer as you. So you're all working with the same tool and getting the same output. It's. Yeah, it's using your own strengths and leveraging those, I think.
Kieran Wright [00:22:20]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, related to that on the, on the client side, another area we're talking about is whether clients are kind of pushing on AI at the minute. And that was an interesting, it was an interesting thought that, because I don't, I think, although it's changed expectations around, you know, speed and output and things like that, especially on the content side, I think in terms of the, the push from, from the client side and, you know, I'll come to you in a second and see if you find the same thing. But I think it's been more on the big changes that have affected them or that are highly visible to them as store owners. So as an example, it's like the AIO reviews, you know, when they started getting rolled out much more widely, it became, okay, how can we rank in these AI reviews? What are the factors to rank in these AIO reviews? We want to be seen in the AIO reviews because it was the most prominent, you know, part of the SERP for these high funnel queries. You know, it was, it was like a big change in the, in the kind of SEO industry. So that became a big question. I think as well.
Kieran Wright [00:23:16]:
It's been around AI apps and integrations, but more so from my side on the kind of case of, do you think this is going to be worthwhile? Is this worth the monthly fee? Is this worth the time it's going to take to install? Have you seen this sort of thing work for other clients? And that's been largely on the kind of conversion rate optimisation side of things or the UX side of things. And then I think finally just the kind of areas that they're kind of maybe getting contacted by constant by their providers. So like aimex, for example, it's been like, are you using it? Does it work? Is it worthwhile? And I think from an agency side of things, that's where we always need to be ahead of the curve. So in theory, we should be driving those conversations, right? So we try and keep up to date with all of these new trends that are coming out. And you know, that way we, instead of a client and you come to us and saying, hey, how can we, you know, appear in this new surface that's become available? It's instead been, hey, here's this new surface that's available, here's our strategy at the minute for how to appear in it. And, you know, there's a fine balance there, I think, between rushing into things. For example, I remember when threads launched, I saw a lot of thread strategies going around. They'd be very interested to know how they're sort of panning out and how that roadmap's going on the, on that side of things.
Kieran Wright [00:24:34]:
So, you know, I get it. It's, you know, the new technology comes out and there's a big rush to, you know, be the first to come up with a strategy. But I think there's a balance there of making sure that your strategy makes sense and that you're not also diverting all of your resource away from, you know, the other parts of SEO or PPC that still exist and that probably still drive the majority of the revenue to focus on the new big shiny. So it's kind of finding that balance, I suppose. And just in terms of the, of the speed, I think, yeah, you know, clients will rightfully push to get more for their spend. It's, it's understandable, you know, we all do it. But I think there's, there's not been too much of kind of a big shift to me anyway, in terms of the client side of things. Where I have seen it has been with conversations I've had with some web developers where they've unfortunately been, yeah, they've really sort of felt that, I think in some cases where the client will for example, knock something together with some kind of AI tool and then go to the developers and say, well, why are you so expensive? I've built this in a couple of hours with lovable or.
Kieran Wright [00:25:43]:
And it's like they're having to manage these conversations as to why the client's 5 minute AI project that they've kind of knocked together, that's a bit janky, isn't really going to be workable and why, you know, you still need a dev team on it to kind of deliver it. So it's finding that balance, I think. And yeah, I think it's, it's probably going to come to, you know, the SEO, ppc, email marketing side of things as well over time. I don't know if you found that with, with your clients and conversations you've had.
Damian Duke [00:26:14]:
Yeah, I mean, I think there's, you know, there's an expectation from clients now that we're using AI as an, as an agency. I don't think there's been kind of much pushback in terms of the expectation that, you know, AI makes everything faster, therefore they can get more for their money. I think what clients appreciate is, you know, we're saying that, right, we use an AI to sort of, like I said before, get the ball rolling, start things off, maybe like create the outline for a piece of content, but then taking that time to, you know, really personalise it and optimise it. So I think they understand that that's where the value is. And that still does take time.
Kieran Wright [00:26:52]:
No, absolutely. And I guess on the AI side of things, assuming AI keeps improving, I guess that means we're all useless and they won't need us at all. What would you say to that?
Damian Duke [00:27:03]:
Yeah, that's it. We're all out of a job. So I think me and you're going down the job center after we finish recording this. Is that right? No, I think in terms of the way things are changing for agency teams, maybe I think, you know, the best people are kind of leaning into what I can't do. So it's providing that contextual judgment, building trust with clients and kind of a bit more sort of creative risk taking. Yeah. So I don't think roles are necessarily disappearing, but I think they are shifting kind of from more of the execution to more of the interpretation, really taking kind of what I can do and what I can output and taking it to that next level. I think that the teams are going to do best are the ones that are going to go deeper for clients.
Damian Duke [00:27:54]:
So they're not just doing Things quicker, they're using the extra time on their hands to their advantage. So whether it's, you know, pulling out really unique insights or unique pieces of data for the client and that kind of that, that's where the value is going to be. Don't know what your thoughts are, Kiran.
Kieran Wright [00:28:10]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think as well, it's important that while these roles are changing, that we don't lose sight of the entry level roles that got people, I mean, you, into the industry. Because without that kind of pipeline of people coming through and, you know, being upskilled, there's not that kind of conveyor belt of talent, I suppose, coming through. So I think sort of important focus for the future is probably going to be refining what these entry level roles look like. Because a lot of this kind of basic work is being done by AI now and perhaps rightfully so. You know, no one wants to sit there and write hundreds of mess descriptions all day long. That's probably not a great use of kind of human ingenuity. But it's.
Kieran Wright [00:28:51]:
What else can you give someone who's just entering the industry as a role where they can still be kind of upskilling and still be learning more about the industry and the techniques that need to be used, but still leveraging the benefits that you can get from AI in terms of not having to do this really tedious sort of grunt work, I guess, for lack of a better name, just so the industry can keep that pipeline of talent moving forward.
Damian Duke [00:29:16]:
Yeah, I think going back to that ethics question before, I think that's, you know, that's on us to make sure that we are, you know, kind of training the next, the next generation, making sure that we've got that pipeline coming through of people who are, you know, really skilled and ready to kind of move things forward.
Kieran Wright [00:29:33]:
Anyone looking for a mentor in SEO strategy, By the way, Damian is open, open to opens wall. So to close things out, I know our esteemed regular host, Richard Hill always asks any guests for a book recommendation. So Damian, what is your book recommendation?
Damian Duke [00:29:53]:
So my book recommendation has absolutely nothing to do with SEO, but it is my current favorite book at the moment and it's the Gun Seller by Hugh Laurie. I know people have seen him in a lot of different films and TV shows, but yeah, he wrote a book a little while ago and it's fantastic. I think it's brilliant.
Kieran Wright [00:30:10]:
It's absolutely brilliant. Loved house, great show. In terms of my book recommendation, I actually read very little to my Shane, so I don't have a book recommendation. I have to have some kind of recommendation though, so I'm actually going to recommend a YouTube channel. It's bizarre name, but Slide Bean. On YouTube, they do a lot of videos about SaaS and tech and I find them really fascinating. They give you real deep dives on like, tech companies and the industry. It's not necessarily SEO related.
Kieran Wright [00:30:37]:
Well, it's not SEO related, but I think they're well worth the watch if you're, if you're interested in, you know, the stories behind the companies that build the tech that we use. So, yeah, that's going to be my recommendation.
Damian Duke [00:30:47]:
If you could recommend something that wasn't SEO related, whether it be a book, film or an album, what would you recommend to everyone? Kira.
Kieran Wright [00:30:55]:
Oh my goodness. Wow. What would I Recommend that's not SEO? I mean, technically that that YouTube channel wasn't SEO related, but I would have to say my favorite album of all time. Daft Punk Discovery.
Damian Duke [00:31:05]:
Great choice.
Kieran Wright [00:31:06]:
That'll be my recommendation for all. So that finishes off this eCom@One podcast with myself and Damian. I've been Kieran Wright, head of technical here at eComOne.
Damian Duke [00:31:16]:
And I've been Damian Duke, lead strategist here at eComOne.
Kieran Wright [00:31:18]:
Thank you very much for listening. Don't forget to comment, like, rate, subscribe, all of the good stuff. Send those signals to the algorithm and yeah, we'll see you in the next one.
Richard Hill [00:31:27]:
If you enjoy this episode, hit the subscribe or Follow button. Wherever you are listening to this podcast,
Damian Duke [00:31:32]:
you're always the first to know when
Richard Hill [00:31:33]:
a new episode is released. Have a fantastic day and I'll see you on the next one.
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