E98: Lysa Campbell

Richard Hill:
Hi, there. I'm Richard Hill, the host of eComOne. Welcome to our 98th episode. In this episode, I speak with Lysa Campbell. Group CEO at Retail Marketing Group. Lysa works with the biggest store brands around the world. And in this episode, we talk all things of virtual shopping. And how it will seriously boost store sales. The what, how, and benefits of a virtual retail experience. And Lysa's opinion on the future of retail stores.

Richard Hill:
If you enjoy this episode, please hit subscribe, or follow button wherever you're listening to this podcast. So you're always the first to know when a new episode is released. Now, let's head over to this fantastic episode. This episode is brought eComOne, eCommerce marketing agency. eComOne works purely with eCommerce stores, scaling their Google shopping, SEO, Google Search, and Facebook ads through a proven performance-driven approach. Go to ecomone.com/resources for a host of amazing resources to grow your paid and organic channels. How are you doing, Lysa?

Lysa Campbell:
I'm well, Richard. How are you?

Richard Hill:
I am very good. Having a very good day today. And I think it's going to get a little bit better after this next 45 minutes or so. Yeah. So let's crack on. Shall we? So I think it'd be good for you if you tell our listeners a little bit about your journey in the eCommerce world over the years.

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah, I guess that journey into eCommerce is actually very recent. So our business, we've been around just over 15 years. And we've always been very much in the physical retail space. And prior to COVID, we'd started to look at what digital transformation actually meant for our industry. And everything that we've always done has been about connecting consumers with brands. And I guess we were trying to look at that, and understand what that was going to mean over the years to come, just as COVID hit. So I'm not going to say it was an easy few months. Whilst we found our path, the world accelerated exactly as we know, and we just had to get on board.

Lysa Campbell:
And we were very lucky, because we have a very large client based in consumer electronics. That opened their arms to us very quickly. To say, obviously we're in COVID, our non-essential retail is closed. How can we reach our consumers, and how can you help us? So what we were looking to do, was how could we recreate the emotional connections that we try to create in those physical outlets? So we went, and we found a third party that had some technology. And we created a studio. And we took our people that would've been in the physical retail world, and put them into a digital studio. So that consumers going onto that brand's website, could then actually get the advice of buying a product that they were looking to purchase.

Lysa Campbell:
It was from doing that, that we then put a team focused on this. And the idea was, what do we need to do to actually provide this whole solution ourselves? So, that was when we actually decided to invest in our own technology. We didn't do it or say we didn't do it particularly quickly. But I'm told now that what we created was very quick. Because I think within start to finish of six months, we'd gone through the research. And we've gone into tech development stage. So we took that product to market last summer. I hasten to add, we are not now solely a tech provider. Far from it, that's not where we want to be. But we do believe that tech is absolutely the enabler. And that the people piece that we do is what still brings the magic to this.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. So you had to adapt, you said as an agency and as a company very, very quickly, and so did your client. So it was almost like both of you were... I guess I want to say scrambling around. But in those early days, when we all had to... we were just having a chat before we came on. Weren't we? Saying about the podcast. We had to set up a studio in the office.

Richard Hill:
And then I had to come home, and I'm sat on my kitchen table and figuring out what we were doing. And obviously, you've got to figure things out. Haven't you? Which is very much, obviously you've got a substantial business there, and a substantial head count. And you've got to figure things out. And obviously, same with the clients. The clients are getting nobody going in their stores, pretty much. At a certain point they were. And so you've gone down, you refer to it as the virtual shopping?

Lysa Campbell:
Yes.

Richard Hill:
Oh, is that-

Lysa Campbell:
Yes.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. So I mean how does that work then? So our listeners are thinking, well, how does that work? How would that resonate with our list? Are there eCommerce store owners thinking potentially about stepping into this. How's it work?

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah. Well, I think, if you think what we used to see was those flat, static websites. Where consumers would start hunting around for what they could find in terms of looking for a product. And I think what we realized very, very quickly, is that a static website just doesn't have the ability to conveyor a true product experience. And that also doesn't guide customers. When consumers are about to invest in a product, of whether that's high retail value, or high emotional value. They want to talk, and they don't necessarily want to be doing their own research. They want to trust-

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
... who they're speaking to. So effectively our own version of that virtual shopping, is a combination of tech and our real people. And it joins those two pieces together. Which means that consumers can be taken through that journey, in exactly the same way that they would do as if they were in a physical store. And with our technology, we fully recognize that you have completely different types of consumers. You have some that actually want to be face-to-face. They want to talk, they want to connect. And you have others that almost want to sit behind the keyboard, but still be able to ask the questions live. So we cater for all of those types of consumer shopper experiences.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. I love it. I love it. I have to admit, I do like going in shops. I do. I do like going in shops. But then I also like doing one click, two clicks, whatever it may be and just ease, ease, ease. But we're bringing those two together. Aren't we? So there's an option there to go onto a store, onto a site and have a chat. So is that a ultimately you're having the equivalent of a Zoom call, or depending obviously the different tech available. Obviously your own tech, but you're ultimately talking like we are to the guy that works in the store, just like going into the store. I have this cycle that I seem to go through with TVs in our house every three years, it sounds really terrible saying out loud. I buy a new television for my front room.

Richard Hill:
And it's a tradition in this house, that in November. Just watch, prior to November, every three years. I'll go into the local TV store. And the same guys work there for about seven, eight years now. I'll go in there in between the three years. He's, "Oh, hi. Are you getting a new TV yet?" I says, "No, no, it's November, November's coming round. I'll see you in November." And I will get one this November. But ultimately I like that experience of going in and speaking to him, or one of his colleagues. And having a good look, and a little bit of research online. But ultimately I do buy that TV based on his advice. And obviously with the stores being closed, and obviously people less like to go in stores. Maybe now, or it's obviously all changing as we speak. But with your technology and what you are saying. Obviously we are getting that in store, in person experience, but it's online. Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
We are. But I think it's really important to point out these two things they're not mutually exclusive. We fully understand that actually a consumer wants to be able to go down to their local store. They want to engage with somebody.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
But they may already have done their research on the website. Which is where they can still find a person. And of course what we do, because as an agency, you have to remember, we still do provide the physical people in retail stores as well. So we're actually able to create that connection. We could talk to you online, and we can also still let your brand representative know that you are going to be in on Saturday, to have that conversation with him. So we actually take the consumer then right through that journey, rather than just provide a piece of it.

Richard Hill:
So quite often then the representatives for your clients, are they usually in the store with a device talking to that customer in the store, and showing another thing in the store, or some of your clients have a studio as well?

Lysa Campbell:
It's both now.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
So obviously prior to COVID, prior to this development. Then yes, it would always have been in that physical store. And TV is one of the items that we do represent a brand for. And we sell an awful lot off. But like I say, now it is actually joining the dots between the two. And particularly obviously, we've had an influx of people, consumers now almost just wanting to get back out into stores. So we've seen a change in the traffic online without any shadow of a doubt.

Lysa Campbell:
But when consumers first got into stores, there were lots of logistical challenges. Supply chain, there were products left over from 18 months ago, that hadn't been cleared out, and new products hadn't quite come in. So actually it became even more important then to join those journeys, because consumers would then still come back home, having not been able to complete that purchase. Still have more questions, and that journey can carry on quite seamlessly.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. No, I love it. So would you say then it's, or what would you say when we're thinking about ultimately everyone's bottom line is to sell?

Lysa Campbell:
Of course.

Richard Hill:
There's a few caveats to that, but ultimately, so how would you say virtual shopping, is help your customers and can help our listeners to actually improve sales?

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah. I mean, we have seen that, as I said, there's a time where consumers couldn't go out.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
And obviously, we have clients that have continued with their market share, or because they've been ahead of the game. They've actually secured a far greater market share. Because they've enabled their consumers to still buy their product.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
What we've certainly found out, is of the consumers that we engage with for brands. I think it's about 83% of them is a start, come back for further advice. So, once they've connected with that individual, and exactly the same way you just said, Richard. You go back every 3rd November, you know the same guy's going to be there. You build that trust.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
You start to build that connection, that emotional connection starts forming. And again, we know, we track all of the activity that comes through on our product, on our tech. And of that 86% of people that actually choose to have an online product demonstration, go on to purchase. So there's absolutely a clear evidence that if you had a website there without the tech. That's like I say, a flat lay. You are not going to see those same sales.

Lysa Campbell:
And the other point to this is, whilst it does depend on the industry that you are in. With an industry like consumer electronics, it becomes about attachment rates, as well as conversion rates. You may be coming on thinking that you're going to buy a 60 inch nano TV. And you might end up being sold a 74 inch OLED, plus your sound system, plus [crosstalk 00:11:22] other things. And that-

Richard Hill:
Every time.

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah, those recommendations come through again, as you trust and you build your confidence in the individual that you've connected with and speaking to. So all in all, you end up with a much higher level of satisfaction.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
Obviously, that brand advocacy lives on. And tho those are all positives as far as we can see.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. No, I like that a lot. I like that a lot. I think, yeah. I remember we have a client, I've been with us a long, long time and they sell hot tubs. Typically, his process would very much be, you get him to the showroom. You get them in the swim trunks. You get them in the hot tub. And it is literally, obviously it's an amazing, amazing experience.

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah.

Richard Hill:
There's different options to pay like TVs, and financing things. And you get people in the showroom, amazing! Obviously, when things are closed, that's impossible.

Lysa Campbell:
Of course.

Richard Hill:
So, what we did with him was very similar, but less tech heavy. But it was ultimately, we set up on his site to book what we call a virtual wet test. Now you can't get any trunks and get in the tub. But the sales guy there would book in their calendar. Standards calender booking. But then obviously counter to cam, you are seeing everything in the hot tub. The sales guys getting in the hot tub, potentially, in some is usually without the watering, but. And then you're seeing it and then ordering it. And they did really, really well from that.

Richard Hill:
And that for them, it was potentially quite challenging because nearly all their high-end sales come from people going to their, they've got various showrooms, not just one. And obviously they had to shut completely, like a lot of people did. And they couldn't rely, it's not something that, it's a lot hard to sell on the page. A 10, 20, 30, even 40,000 pound swim spa, hot tub. Very difficult to sell on the page. We have sold literally a handful I believe. But obviously literally sales every day in the stores. And obviously, if we couldn't do that virtual piece, it would've been a real catastrophe for them for quite some time. Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
And that's exactly I guess the approach that we've taken, is that our technology fully enables that. It's completely mobiles. So again, our demonstrators can move around a showroom. They can move around a product. Whether that be a car, a hot tub, et cetera. What it does do though, I guess what you're talking about there is, people choose to go on and book their demo. Which our product does allow consumers to do. But there also is an element of, you can almost create this the bot part. So you actually ensure that the only people coming through are the consumers that really want to purchase.

Richard Hill:
Yeah, [crosstalk 00:14:05]-

Lysa Campbell:
And then some that are coming back for that after sale support, and just want a couple of questions asked. Again, they don't necessarily want those face-to-face demos. But they can get those questions asked by hopefully almost the same person that they originally saw as well.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. So what would you say then the guys that are listening, then they're thinking. You know what? We either maybe doing a bit of that, or thinking of doing that. How can they improve? What are some of the things that you think that stores that are maybe doing a little bit? A little bit of a tricky question, probably. Because obviously people are doing different things.

Richard Hill:
But to improve that virtual experience, to make it more humanistic. Because I think, I mean, and I think that's what you are saying is, ultimately you're building a relationship with an individual that is, it's easy if you go in the store, it's the same person. But the chances are that if you're going online, it's maybe a different person, potentially. And so how to improve that virtual experience. So ultimately, there is a sale at the end of it, and you're better than maybe the average person. Is just maybe using a Zoom account and fingers crossed.

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah. For us, I think it's really simple, because it does just come back to the personal touch.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
People want to feel that they matter to a brand. And I actually think it's in some ways easier to create this online or virtually, than it is in a store. Because, you know in a store obviously there's lots of people in a store. Whereas, when you're online, you tend to find that you're going through to a studio. And that could be two or three studios. There are still a limited number of people at the other end. So even if somebody came on and said, "Well, I spoke to Diane on Tuesday." Be, "Oh yeah, I was working with her at that time."

Lysa Campbell:
So it's not quite as daunting as it sounds. And I think, when that consumer... even again, if they are on and they're talking. But they actually, I really want to chat with my husband. Can I come back on Thursday? And they can still talk to that exact same person. They don't have to lose that connection. So what I would always say to brands, is put yourself in the shoes of the consumer. Understand what that human touch looks like. The more investment required in the product, then you probably want to be looking at that white glove service.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
And you absolutely, must have people that understand and believe in your product. They must represent your brand, that that's so important. Rather than everything feeling as though there's transcripts, and you're just reading-

Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah, scripts [crosstalk 00:16:30], yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
... what the product looks like. That's not a personal journey.

Richard Hill:
It's having those real brand ambassadors, is really good customer service or product specialists. That obviously are just very good from faced people, that you will probably have in store if it was store we're talking about. But they're manning the technical side. Sorry, the technology side of whatever tech stack you're using to do the online, like-

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah.

Richard Hill:
... us now brilliant. Okay. Okay. We'll step away from virtual retail for a second, then. We'll move around a little bit. So I think that's really exciting, I think obviously, a lot of us have had to adapt like we have with the podcast. And you have with your business, and your clients and all of our, probably half of my clients have had to do a lot of, yeah. Everybody obviously, listening had to do a lot of different things. And that whole pivot half the planets had to make. And I think this is a really interesting topic. So how would you say an eCommerce business can create brand personality in a digital world?

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah. And there's absolutely no doubt that that's a challenge. And I think that particularly that digital content creation. There's a lot of it around, but it needs to be really compelling. More compelling than ever, is probably the words that I would use. And I think, again, to make sure that what you are creating gives consumers a real feel for your personality. And just be very, very true to your brand. I mean, I don't know about you Richard, but there's every so often that you watch something. You get a really clear idea in your mind of what a brand look and feel is.

Lysa Campbell:
And then you connect with it. And you think, oh, that's really not quite what I thought they were. And I think, it's not just what you create, but it's what you then choose to share. How you choose to talk, how you respond online. There almost isn't a single silver bullet to any of this. But you've got to have a tone of voice that is consistent throughout.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. Yeah. Well said. So obviously, you work with a lot of, I think, from what you're saying is obviously a lot of brands that have physical stores.

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah.

Richard Hill:
Where do you see that going? Where do you see the future of physical stores? What is some of the things that, if we would sat here in maybe two years time, because things are moving so quick. What are some of the things our listeners should be looking at? But I know we have a lot of listeners that have physical stores. We've got one round. We talked to quite a lot of listeners to podcast. I know they've got about 320 stores. What would you say about physical stores?

Lysa Campbell:
So, do you know what? What I would say now, I think is completely different to what I would've said two years ago. The reason that we were trying to look at our own digital journey a couple of years ago. We were almost sitting there saying, "You know what? Physical retail isn't going to be here in whether it was 10, 15 or, or 20 years." Everybody had a number in mind. But I think the reality is with what we've been through physical stores, I hope will always have a place. Consumers do want a reason to visit. But again, it's about experience. And it's about creating something that is so unique, that they can't get anywhere else. I think they're always going to still be some that prefer to actually go and do their grocery shopping rather than order online. But-

Richard Hill:
Yeah, yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
... anything else over and above that, I really think that it is going to be, and I'll go back to a comment I made earlier. That none of this can happen in isolation. It isn't mutually exclusive. It isn't physical. It isn't digital. It isn't virtual. It will be a blend of all three. And I think that a retailer that can offer then a virtual tour, a virtual offering. But also create some kind of, I'm going to say localization and inclusivity.

Lysa Campbell:
And what I mean by that is, again, if I was to go back to our product. Our product can be used globally. So, if we have students in the UK based in Birmingham, that are perhaps from overseas. And let's just say their local language is Mandarin. There's absolutely no reason why they actually still couldn't connect, to be talking to somebody in Mandarin. Because we can choose where to root some of those experiences.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
So I think it's just an absolute perfect blend of all of those combinations. And again, I'll mention, again, the white glove, the concierge type. Making people feel special whilst having an experience. And I don't know whether you've seen it, but the C2 Live Concept at Westfield, White City. Which is an experiential, I'll say an experiential venue. If I call it a retail outlet, I know I will get a kick. Because you definitely can't buy products there.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
But what you can do is you can get, and you can explore products.

Richard Hill:
Oh, wow! Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of things there. I think that why I... yeah, I mean, I love going shopping. I do. I've said that. Some I do, some days I don't. But you shops will never go. Will they? They just can't.

Lysa Campbell:
No.

Richard Hill:
They just can't.

Lysa Campbell:
No.

Richard Hill:
Obviously, it's getting them, you are online and your offline working together. That sort of white glove element, I think, and that experience. It's slightly tangent, but I went out for a meal last night, with my family. And the experience of that, we had such a lovely evening. Absolutely lovely, the way we were looked after. The Ambience, the music, the food. Obviously, the whole place was just such a lovely thing. And then I think it's similar.

Richard Hill:
We as a family, we like to go to, what's known as York outlet. I don't hear, if you've ever been. But these outlet villages, and it's one of these things, that's a bit of a family outing. And it's just a cracking place to go. We make a day of it. Will that ever go? Well, it will never go for me. I'll always want to do that. I think. But then in same respect, some things, yeah. You want to be quick in and out, order online.

Richard Hill:
Know whether it's that one click order, or whether it's that, spending hours and hours of, I'm a bit of a car freak. I've just spend probably 30 hours researching a certain thing for one of my cars. And I spent a lot of time doing that. And I've enjoyed it, and I've learned a lot about it. But that's different. I actually still went to a physical store to buy a certain part. And spend some time with them. So that was a bit of both. But yeah, I think that white glove piece, I think for me, that's a big thing as well. Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah. I think, definitely consumers expectations have shifted. And they do want to feel special. Again, that connects them more to a brand than ever before, we believe anyway.

Richard Hill:
Yeah, no, I totally agree. So, okay. So we'll shift again. So obviously, female founder of a large organization. How have you found that over any shifts there over the years?

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah, I mean, most definitely. So I've had two separate founder experiences. So I set up a field marketing agency back in the 2008. And then obviously more recently, digital marketing agency, retail story. And what I would say, is I've always worked in a work, hard play hard environment. Had some great role models throughout my time. But I've also seen things, fast ways of learning, what I don't want to do in my own business. I personally still think it's quite a tough time for females. I remember being passed over for promotion, for what I would believe was a far less experienced male. And I've always been then a real advocate of fishing females.

Lysa Campbell:
But I mean, I look at my own team. And I have a real mix of individuals. Real mix of ages, authenticity, everything. But I always just believe again, that great positive people can work together and overcome any challenge. There's absolutely no doubt. What I've seen in suddenly in the last couple of years is of course, employees do have a greater share of power than ever before. And they are voting quite rightly with their feet.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
Obviously, just before we came on air, we were talking about those that can work from anywhere, versus those-

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
... that have an office to work for.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
And some of the cultural challenges that that creates. So there's a lot for an agency owner to be thinking about right now. I've never been afraid to make decisions. And I think that where retail story are now, is actually because we were agile. We had some fast thinking, and we were quite brave. On one hand it felt like we should button down the hatches, and apply for our CBO loan, and save our cash. When would we be able to come back out? And instead we actually said, "You know what? We're going to go into a new world, because we see things are changing." And I think that's just really, really, really important for any founder to to keep listening and see what changes are coming their way.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. Not afraid to adapt, and to push-

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah.

Richard Hill:
... through, and to change. Which is obviously, we've all had to all had our fair share. Haven't we? This last couple of years, almost. But obviously in your very specific industry, is probably been one of the most change, most disruption. And obviously you could have sat still. It would've been very damaging. Wouldn't it? To do that. And obviously now, you're doing extremely well, because you've embraced this hybrid, this virtual shopping, and various other elements. So, yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
And what it's also done for our business. Like I said, pre-COVID, our only clients were consumer electronic clients.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
And we were trying to work out, whether that was the space for us to stay, because we're absolutely experts in that. But what we've realized is that we are experts in consumer shopping habits. And created technology to support that. So, we have retailers that are our customers now. We have health and beauty clients. So actually our business now has a far greater reach than it ever, or that I could ever have dreamt of Pre-COVID.

Richard Hill:
Yeah. Don't you? Yeah. That complete change in that new service is now open so many other verticals-

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah.

Richard Hill:
... industries. Yeah, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. So, and what would you say your, so the key tips are for people that are listening, for just general success? Obviously, you've been very, very successful this last year, or so with where you've gone with the business. But what would you say guys that are listening in, they're running their businesses. What would be your one minute version of why you've been so successful?

Lysa Campbell:
Gosh! That is a hard one. So I personally don't have university education. So for me, it's all been about life experience. I think it's extremely important to have a group you that, not necessarily within your own business. So I'm a member of a couple of groups and organizations that provide me with safety and support, where I [crosstalk 00:27:53]-

Richard Hill:
So is that a mastermind group? Would you refer to it as that or?

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah. Yeah. That kind of, other founders, six of us in a group. And I find that very, very supportive.

Richard Hill:
Yes.

Lysa Campbell:
So I do take quite a lot of time for reflection. I think, it's really important to fail fast, learn quick. As I said, that kind of agility. But I also think that right now, I go back to the point I made around bravery. You have to make some difficult decisions. You can feel very vulnerable, but I think as long as you have done your research. We never go into something, try and thinking, what if this is a bad decision? We always believe that we are making a right decision at the time.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
I love filming that vote very, very, very quickly. But you know what? The other thing I would say, is that I've always worked incredibly hard. I've always known that working all hours isn't the only thing that it takes to deliver results. And right now my best ideas, certainly one of the best ideas I had last year. Now, I'm actually a hobbyist photographer.

Lysa Campbell:
And I remember taking a day off and going doing some photography. And actually it was on the way back, I had this great thought. And I thought where did that come from? Why didn't I think of this three months ago? And I realized I hadn't been thinking of it, because I'd been so busy with my head down and working. It is taking that time to allow some creativity to flow. And it is extremely important.

Richard Hill:
I think brilliant. I think that'll resonates so much with the listeners. I think as business owners, which obviously a lot of our listeners are. You just so busy in the thing, in the business. Taking that day out, out of your environment,. Where you are living and breathing and it's just maybe no doubt, quite intense. A lot going on. And then you need to be able to step back-

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah.

Richard Hill:
... and spend some time. Whether that's going to the gym, if that's your thing, or having a day out doing your photography class.

Lysa Campbell:
Yeah.

Richard Hill:
But then also having those days where you are speaking to like-minded people. And I think that's why, it's a sort of a thing I see. I do see a lot where very, very busy entrepreneurs running their stores, running their businesses. And the power of having that day out, or maybe that weekend away with a group of like-minded people. And having a, what I would refer to as a mastermind or a, whether that's a pay thing, or something you put together with people that are in similar positions, but maybe different industries. So there's not as much conflict or not conflict, but crossover maybe.

Richard Hill:
I think that's been very powerful for me as well. I've been a member of quite a few masterminds over the years. And some of the things that come from that, and lifelong friends that come from things like that. You in the business and it can be quite a lonely place as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, as a solopreneur potentially. And spending time with like-minded people and nothing better. Yeah, brilliant!

Lysa Campbell:
And do you know what, Richard? Don't get me wrong. I haven't always got it right. Every so often I've needed that reminder as well.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
And it's so easy to get your head down and get stuck in things. But it's a very valuable reminder.

Richard Hill:
Brilliant! Well, thank you for coming onto the podcast. It's been an absolute blast. I always like to finish every episode with a book recommendation. What would you recommend?

Lysa Campbell:
Oh, I okay. I do have one actually. And this is right by the side of me. I've been reading this for, I'm terrible for normally reading two or three at the same time. But right now mine is, I don't know whether you've had this one before.

Richard Hill:
No, no, no.

Lysa Campbell:
I'm not even sure whether I should swear on air, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a-

Richard Hill:
F!

Lysa Campbell:
Bleep, F.

Richard Hill:
Yeah.

Lysa Campbell:
Yes. And I've really, really enjoyed it.

Richard Hill:
Yes.

Lysa Campbell:
Again, realizing that not every battle is mine to fight, has been really important for these last few months.

Richard Hill:
Brilliant! We'll link that up. So this is that want to find out more about you and maybe reach out to you. What's the best way to do that, Lysa?

Richard Hill:
Well, can they can either come onto our website, which is retailstory.com. But also obviously myself through LinkedIn. So Lysa Campbell, or through my email anyway, which is l.campbell@retailmarketing.com.

Richard Hill:
Brilliant! Well, thanks for being on this show. And I look forward to speaking to you again.

Lysa Campbell:
Really enjoyable, thanks for having me, Richard.

Richard Hill:
Thank you. Bye!

Lysa Campbell:
Bye!

Richard Hill:
Thank you for listening to the eComOne eCommerce podcast. If you enjoy today's show, please hit subscribe. And don't forget to sign up to our eCommerce newsletter, and leaves a review on iTunes. This podcast has been brought to you by our team here at eComOne, the eCommerce marketing agency.