E223: Fran Gresswell

Richard Hill [00:00:00]:
You're getting in front of people with a brand, you're getting the product in front of people.

Fran Gresswell [00:00:02]:
Everyone has different approaches, and I think it's a massive fine line of not annoying people but hasling them enough. If you can get face to face with someone, you sell them on the story, not the product.

Richard Hill [00:00:14]:
Court case.

Fran Gresswell [00:00:15]:
It was my worst day in business when I found out everybody's going to know my business has failed. I wouldn't be able to live with it if I did give it up. A month later, I had the best day in business. I got the Co-op listed.

Richard Hill [00:00:25]:
That's just Brilliant.

Fran Gresswell [00:00:26]:
That was amazing, and I'm just— I can't wait to have that feeling again of winning.

Richard Hill [00:00:34]:
Hi, I'm Richard Hill, and welcome back. We're back with the 223. Welcome to the Ecom@One podcast. Today I'm joined by Fran Gresswell, founder of Riviera Ice Tea, a premium drinks brand that started at university and just a few years later is now stocked in over 400 independent retailers, major venues, and national listings. This is the story of a young founder building something from scratch with persistence, resilience, and a refusal to quit, even when it would have been much, much easier to just walk away. We get into the real journey— losing £12,000 to a bad manufacturer just a year in, nearly quitting, bootstrapping through tough retail margins, and navigating one of the hardest trading environments hospitality has ever seen. We talk about what it really takes to land retail listings, from literally turning up in person and selling at events to persistent timing and building genuine relationships with buyers. We also break down how Fran repositioned the brand as a premium non-alcoholic alternative and why personal branding on TikTok has driven more growth than polished ads, turning viral moments into real, real wholesale orders.

Richard Hill [00:01:42]:
This is a grounded, practical conversation about building a physical product brand in today's market. Without huge funding, without pretending it's all sunshine and rainbows. So stick around, there's a lot in here for founders navigating retail. So let's get into this episode. Right, well, welcome to the Ecom at One podcast. Um, you've not had to come too far, have you, today?

Fran Gresswell [00:02:05]:
No, super easy for me, 20 minutes on the train. Great.

Richard Hill [00:02:09]:
So you've literally come from where I used to go to school. Yeah, quite a few years ago. I used to go to Newark, um, every day, 5 days a week. Most weeks to Newark. So yeah, not too far away. Obviously we're in Lincoln here at EcomOne HQ, but thank you for coming in to see us.

Fran Gresswell [00:02:25]:
It's nice to keep it local.

Richard Hill [00:02:26]:
Yes, isn't it? It's quite rare in this space. So obviously where we are, you know, we're trying to bring a lot of brands to Lincoln and a lot of brands on the podcast to highlight Lincoln and Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire, of course, where you're from. So it's lovely to have somebody very, very, very local on, literally 20 minutes away, which is very rare. They're normally on a maybe on a Zoom in San Francisco or wherever it may be. So Riviera Iced Tea, a brand that a few of the team here have been shouting about, and Carrianne, who works here, sort of said, we've got to get the lady on from Riviera Iced Tea. I was like, iced tea? I am a massive, massive fan of iced tea from my travels, especially in Vietnam. It's a drink that I was sort of introduced to probably about 4 or 5 years ago. So obviously my understanding is you sort of set this up at uni and very, very quickly, sort of 4, 3, 4 years later now, you know, you've got a lot of listings nationally in a lot of retail brands.

Richard Hill [00:03:20]:
But I'm intrigued about maybe some of the trickier times. You know, we could tell the success story from the beginning, but amongst those 4 years, has there been some challenging times that you've had to go through?

Fran Gresswell [00:03:31]:
Loads, loads and loads. And I've never, never want to shy away from it. I mean, probably the biggest one, we'll go straight for the biggest one. Um, about 12 months after launching, I lost £12,000 to a manufacturer. And obviously, 12 months after launching, that's all my profits. So, you know, I'd grafted for a year, and I'm not gonna lie, the year— the first year in business is— is when you're in products anyway, it's sunshine and rainbows because you're on market stalls, you know, people are loving the products, there's not really worries, you've not got employees to pay. It's— it's probably the easiest time in business despite sales being low. Um, and yeah, I was— it was my first, it was my first real test, and I sold out of products after a year, um, which was incredible.

Fran Gresswell [00:04:15]:
But obviously I was sold out in summer, so I was panicking about having no sales that year. Um, and just complete naivety, I went for a manufacturer who showed a lot of red flags. And you know, it was, it was— I do massively blame myself for it because look looking back, I think, and when I tell this story, I'm thinking, what an idiot, like the things I put up with and agreed to and, and things like that. But, you know, I think sometimes you have to, you have to learn. And me being— I was 22 at the time, you know, you don't realize there's bad people out there. And, you know, even if you think you do, you, you just think, won't happen to me, or, oh, you know, we're chatting over the phone every day, they won't stab me in the back when we're getting on face to face and, you know, having a laugh. Um, and yes, it was a harsh thing to learn year one, but almost good that it happened early because it was £12,000, which in the grand scheme of things, I mean, if it happened now, it'd be in the £100,000. So yeah, the scale, scale.

Fran Gresswell [00:05:13]:
And yeah, it was— and at the time, obviously that is relative, so yeah, it was all my profits. It felt like the end of the world.

Richard Hill [00:05:19]:
Yeah.

Fran Gresswell [00:05:20]:
Um, but I'm just— I'm glad that I learned and I came back from it. And, and it was, it was my worst day in business when I found out and well, to be honest, probably one of the worst days of my life. I felt awful. Yeah. But a month later, I had the best day in business. I got the co-op listed. And it just shows, you know, how up and down business is. They say it's a mountain, and yeah, it really is.

Fran Gresswell [00:05:43]:
And I almost feel quite a bit of relief that the best day can come after the worst. So I feel like if it happens again, I'm always quite aware of, right, okay, that was another bad day, or another lesson that I've learned.

Richard Hill [00:05:55]:
Maybe a £50 grand lesson this time. Hopefully not, but But yeah, I think in those moments, obviously very, very challenging. The end of the world is, is here. You've lost all the cash. You've worked so hard to make the £12,000 in that instance, so it doesn't matter what it is, but it's everything in that moment. And more so, you've trusted somebody and they've, what they've done, shafted you basically. Is how I would— sorry to put it that way, but it happens, doesn't it? It doesn't, doesn't it? But then I guess, you know, step back a week, a month, You know, in the moment things are very difficult, but a month or so down the line, it's like, you know what, we're flying.

Fran Gresswell [00:06:29]:
Yeah, exactly. And that was the time when I debated, is this, is this for me? You know, I mean, almost a thing with the, with me is like, I, at the time, I think a lot of times in business, you, you, when you doubt yourself, you think public perception. I don't want my business to fail. Everybody's going to know my business has failed. And I almost saw that as I had a bit of a get-out-of-jail-free card there, because if my— if I wrapped it up after that, everyone knows that's not my fault because I've just lost £12,000 to a dodgy guy. And I did, I did debate it. And a lot of people say, you know, oh yeah, I was so driven on the goal, but there was probably a few days where I said, is this for me? And obviously after that I was like, you know what, I've— I could, I could end it here, but personally I've not given it my all because there is a way I can get out of this. And there is a way I can get some more money, and I wouldn't be able to live with it if I did give it up.

Fran Gresswell [00:07:24]:
So yeah, it was—

Richard Hill [00:07:25]:
I had a few days of doubt, and then it's a great lesson early on then for you, but you're learning, you know. And we could all list the, you know, for the games. I remember once I was like, I'm going to start importing, I'm going to import, and we're importing computers, and I was the smartest guy, you know. I was like, oh yeah, I met this manufacturer, very similar And back then, computer mice, mice, mice, they had a ball in them. Probably you don't remember them, but they had balls. They're all optical now. So, and but if you imported them built, you had to pay a certain tax on them. But if you bought them in component part, they came in as spares.

Richard Hill [00:08:02]:
So you didn't have to pay the certain tax on them. So it's like, ah, I'll get the mice external, the internal, bring them together and build them. Bought 10,000 mice. The balls didn't fit. Short version is they went in the skip. The manufacturer didn't, wouldn't speak to me after that. That was that. Again, similar thing.

Richard Hill [00:08:21]:
But then you're like, right, okay, now we know how, what the detail, we've got to sort of cross the T's, dot the I's and so forth. An expensive one, but it's, you know, you learn, don't you? So I think going to the product then, I think obviously very, very popular product. I think iced tea, But I think some people see it as maybe a premium type product. You know, what have you had to sort of, um, how do you sort of promote a premium product in maybe a slightly challenging market at the moment?

Fran Gresswell [00:08:49]:
I think it's all about— it's about who you're targeting. Um, and you know, I created the brand to be a premium version of what is on the market at the moment because the first instance was getting it into cafes, bars, and restaurants as a non-alcoholic alternative. And When we first launched the brand e-com-wise, D2C, we were targeting iced tea lovers, Lipton, people who love Lipton but maybe just want to try a different brand. And that was great in year one, but like you say, times are getting tougher, um, it's getting more and more expensive, um, for kind of ads. And we kind of had to— we had to look at who is willing to pay a price for a drink and who sees a drink as almost a necessity rather than a luxury. And that was people who are trying to actively cut down alcohol.

Richard Hill [00:09:35]:
Yeah.

Fran Gresswell [00:09:36]:
And people who, you know, they're so used to having a drink on a Friday night, or maybe a bit of a dependent on a drink on a Friday night.

Richard Hill [00:09:42]:
Yeah.

Fran Gresswell [00:09:42]:
They need something exciting, they need something slightly different to take them away from that. And so they will pay the price, they will pay £1.80 for a drink that they know is, you know, it's exciting but it's refreshing, it's tasty. And it's— they will happily drink it and feel like they're drinking a mojito. Like, our raspberry and mint is kind of modeled off one of my favorites. Yeah, so it's, it's like, it's about how you target it, and it's about who sees it as a necessity or as something that will add to their life rather than just a luxury.

Richard Hill [00:10:15]:
So you've positioned it more as an alcoholic alternative rather than a— maybe trying to think really— more than a sort of luxury soft drink Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Fran Gresswell [00:10:28]:
And you know, it also, it depends on who I can— you know, you, you have your target market, you have your ideal customer, but everybody considers it a different thing.

Richard Hill [00:10:38]:
Yeah.

Fran Gresswell [00:10:39]:
So, you know, somebody who is, um, relatively wealthy, they wouldn't consider that a luxury. They wouldn't consider it a luxury drink because they're used to spending, yeah, you know, £50, £60 on a bottle of wine. So they wouldn't consider it a luxury. But other people would because it's out of their price range. And that's absolutely fine that people consider it, you know, different. Like, I would call it a premium drink because I don't— I'm a 25-year-old girl, I don't have a lot of disposable income.

Richard Hill [00:11:03]:
Yeah.

Fran Gresswell [00:11:03]:
Um, but other people, they do. So yeah, it's all about who you're targeting and who your customer is.

Richard Hill [00:11:09]:
So talking about that more there, I'm just thinking of the listeners thinking, well, okay, great, we're targeting the market of people potentially that are looking for an alcoholic alternative. Um, you know, step me through and step our listeners through maybe, you know, how you've done that and this sort of, you know, right, okay, that's a, that's, that's a great niche to go for maybe, you know, at the beginning, obviously very much so now, I think you've proven that. Um, but in the moment sat there at home thinking, right, we're gonna, we're gonna go after this, you know, then step us through maybe the, the couple of year journey of how that's worked and how have you managed to do that successfully.

Fran Gresswell [00:11:45]:
So a lot of it was kind of based on flavors, and that's what we always had in the mind. So I did launch a peach and lemon just because I'm always of the mindset that you're trying to convince a customer to try a new brand. It's very difficult to also convince them to try a new flavor they've never heard of, you know. It's— and I, I do feel sometimes I'm quite lucky that iced tea, although I think the product's innovative because it's got different flavors and it's better for you, iced tea is an established market. Everybody knows what it is, majority of people. There's not masses of education involved. Whereas if you bring a completely new product no one's heard of, there's a lot of barriers you've got to overcome as well. Um, so we did just launch with the classic two, convince people on the flavors, then the brand, and then— but always in my mind was to launch the kind of more sophisticated flavors.

Fran Gresswell [00:12:29]:
So raspberry mint was within 8 months of launching, so it was very much based off a mojito. And then the rhubarb and ginger was based off the popular gin, gin combo. So it's kind of like you've been at our house on a Friday night. Yeah, exactly. It was like my house, my parents' house. So yeah, it's modeling it off, uh, popular flavors, and they mix really well as mixers if people wanted to mix them with alcohol. So that was always kind of in the back.

Richard Hill [00:12:53]:
Yeah, she's got the option then.

Fran Gresswell [00:12:54]:
Yeah, yeah. And in terms of kind of targeting, you know, we do a lot with ads, with email lists about, um, kind of mocktails and dressing it up. And yeah, you know, things like seasonality makes it easy. Christmas, uh, for the non-drinkers makes it easy. Yeah, a dry jam do a big campaign in dry Jan. Yeah. And then that kind of pulls it through from there.

Richard Hill [00:13:14]:
Yeah.

Fran Gresswell [00:13:14]:
And obviously, you know, campaigns change. Summer, summer kind of sells itself as iced tea, and people want a cold drink in summer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, um, it's all, yeah, all about the campaign, all about the time of year.

Richard Hill [00:13:24]:
Yeah. So, okay, I'm, I'm completely with you, but I'm really intrigued, really intrigued. I'm sure the listeners will be about the listings. You know, um, we talk a lot about the D2C side, and we're going to cover some of that, absolutely. But, you know, we obviously get a lot of different brands on the podcast, a lot of brands listening, and getting those listings, getting some of those core listeners you talked about, you know, some of the independents, some of the bigger retailers, some of the real flagship retailers as a whole. You know, I can imagine sort of literally walking into the local shop and going, hey, maybe at the beginning, I might be wrong, you know, are there— but some of the things you're doing now, I think, you know, I'm really interested in that journey from maybe that first couple of listings to then some of the big deals when you went home and said, oh my God, Mum, you won't believe what we've got, and then where you are now and how you, you know, some of the advice you would give to people that are trying to get listings.

Fran Gresswell [00:14:15]:
Yeah, so I, you know, there's a few brands who they go straight in supermarket shelves, and a lot of people also think they're going to do that. It's not, not as simple. But for me, if you go into a retail listing, you've not got any customer base, you will be lost on shelf because you'll be in the top shelf or the bottom shelf. It's— if you lose a listing, you're not getting it. It's very difficult to get it back, um, especially if it's the same buyer. And it's very difficult to get any other listings because everybody knows you've been delisted. So for me, I went with a very cautious, very gradual approach. And that's probably the benefit of bootstrapping as well.

Fran Gresswell [00:14:47]:
I could, I could do that. I could take my time. So I started on market stalls and then went to local cafes. And it was literally my local cafe down the road. Walked in with samples. I said, I make this, you know, we make it in England, but it's stored down the road in Newark. Can we just try it? And so I started with 3 there and then just built it out, a bit out the social media, built out the website. And because we are the only premium iced tea in the UK, it, it— we've got a lot of organic traction.

Fran Gresswell [00:15:15]:
Um, and luckily with the product, we could send it abroad. But a lot of it was feet on the ground, walking in, giving them samples, telling them the story. And I do think as a, as a founder of a small business, if you can get face to face with someone, you sell them on the story, not the product, because because at the end of the day, if they want to stock Lipton, they're getting a much higher margin. Yeah. So I have to sell them on Almost Me as well. And so we kind of found like the best approach was a mixture of calling and in person. Um, and it, it kind of just grew from there. You know, we started with the ones that were kind of easy to land, so cafes.

Fran Gresswell [00:15:50]:
We refined where we— I knew the products sold, so it sells really well in kind of coastal locations, tourist locations. Yeah, and especially in the summers. We do a lot in Norfolk, a lot on the coast, Cornwall, um, a lot in the university towns as well because that's, you know, our target customer age. And then we kind of went for the slightly bigger ones, so the ones that were slightly harder to get into. So Chatsworth, um, they're notoriously difficult to get into.

Richard Hill [00:16:15]:
How did that come about?

Fran Gresswell [00:16:16]:
I'd have to do a bit of legwork on that one. So the emails weren't really getting me anywhere. They do a food and drink festival, um, 2 months of the year, and you kind of go in for 3 days in May and 3 days in July. And I did them, and it's an hour drive each way, over an hour drive each way, um, 3 days. And I sat there and I recorded every bit of sales data we made and every single customer that came over to buy from me. I said, you know, if you, uh, mention it at the till that you like it, that would be, uh, really good because we're trying to get stock. Just to get Chatsworth aware, basically, to get Chatsworth to know that we we were selling. And the good thing about it is they buy through you, but when they've bought in the store, which they can also walk through to get to where the market is, they have to go up to the till.

Fran Gresswell [00:17:02]:
So they were going up to the till with my can in their hands, and it was brilliant. And I recorded all my sales data, and I then hounded the buyer with all my sales data and said, you know, we've sold over 1,000 cans this weekend, like, that could be in your store., and it took both— it took 3 months of that, and I had to do the next one, but eventually got listed and been there for—

Richard Hill [00:17:24]:
so you're there physically in there at their event twice. You're obviously talking again to know the team on the ground, the Chatsworth team, and then the people that are coming up, obviously chatting to them, but then mentioning to them when you go to pay, mention— what was it, sorry—

Fran Gresswell [00:17:39]:
mention and say that they, they like it, they've bought it. No, I was saying to the customers, like, if you want to crack it open while you're waiting at the tills, like, you know, that would help.

Richard Hill [00:17:48]:
That's Brilliant.

Fran Gresswell [00:17:48]:
You know what I mean? I think it's— I think it's people buy off people. We're chatting to the customers anyway. They, they're like, oh, where are you based? And I'm like, not too far away, Nottinghamshire. And yeah, you know, people were happy to help, and it's all about that. And the thing with Chatsworth is if you are in there, you can use that to get elsewhere, because almost farm shop buyers know, oh, if they're in there, it's something good.

Richard Hill [00:18:09]:
So you're on the ground, you've done your 3 days, and your next 3 days, and you, you know, getting everybody to mention it and so forth, and you know, and then you reached out to the buyer.

Fran Gresswell [00:18:18]:
Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:18:18]:
Did you know the buyer before? Did you meet them while you were there at all?

Fran Gresswell [00:18:21]:
Or— yeah, so I met her while— I met them while they were there. Um, so I kind of met the junior buyer, lovely, massively got her on side. She was a big advocate for the brand. It was then convincing one above. So yeah, met him briefly.

Richard Hill [00:18:32]:
Um, so you went back in then to meet them face to face, or you met him at the same event?

Fran Gresswell [00:18:36]:
At the event, luckily. Um, kind of had to just grab them as they walked past.

Richard Hill [00:18:40]:
Grabbed them, seized the moment.

Fran Gresswell [00:18:41]:
I just jumped in front. Um, but yeah, I mean, buyers, they keep themselves to themselves. They get hounded all the time. I completely understand. So you've just got to be, you've got to be personal, and everyone has different approaches. And I think it's, it's a massive fine line of not annoying people but hassling them enough. And, you know, I've— people get told to piss off because they're so annoying. And, um, I've got friends who will literally send gift baskets and all sorts to, to the buyers, and it's, it's, it's that approach.

Fran Gresswell [00:19:10]:
There's people who will go down and knock on the door until they get seen, and Yeah, it's trying not to be annoying.

Richard Hill [00:19:16]:
So when you left, obviously you met the more senior there, and then did they agree something there? Are you still— did they have to follow up and still crunch the email, email, phone, email, email, phone, or was it almost—

Fran Gresswell [00:19:27]:
still a lot of email follow-ups, um, almost committing I will do the same again next year, but obviously through them, so they'll get the—

Richard Hill [00:19:34]:
yeah, you'll be there, but you're rep— they're getting the margin.

Fran Gresswell [00:19:35]:
Yeah, yeah, they'll get the— so I won't get masses out of it other than the wholesale price. Yeah. Um, but yeah, just it's all about, um, it's, it's kind of following up enough. They've got, they've got hundreds of brands doing the same thing, so you always just want to, you know, it's all about timing. You want to land at the top of their inbox. And I mean, I had the issue with, um, another, uh, like slightly bigger supermarket, and he hadn't replied for 5 weeks, and I was sending an email every kind of 5 days. Um, and then I sent one and he replied within about 30 seconds because I obviously just happened to be at the top of his inbox that time. He almost— the way he replied was like he hadn't seen any of the others, like, you know.

Fran Gresswell [00:20:12]:
And it's, yeah, it's all about timing.

Richard Hill [00:20:15]:
So then, I mean, that's just brilliant. I just love it. It's basically hustling, aren't you, in a great way? You're getting in front of people with a brand, you're getting the product in front of people, great product firstly, you know, with a great message. Um, and then ultimately you are just being yourself and, you know, and you'll love your brand and getting people to try it. And then you're chatting to everybody at these events, getting to know everybody. And obviously there's another probably 50 brands in the room maybe trying to do the same. So you've got to stand out, you've got to have the energy about yourself. And the end of the day, you know, we talk about it a lot on the podcast, you go into an event, events, getting a brand out there, and it's amazing what can happen.

Richard Hill [00:20:49]:
So obviously you've got chats with— from that, and then where are we now? Let's maybe just give the listeners a scale of the sort of the listings and the, and the sort of retail side.

Fran Gresswell [00:20:57]:
The brand's in about 400+ independents, um, it changes kind of every day. Well done, that is—

Richard Hill [00:21:03]:
yeah, it's freaking brilliant. Well done, that is amazing.

Fran Gresswell [00:21:06]:
Brands in like a lot of wholesalers, so they have— we have customers through them who I don't always get sales data on, so I don't know where I am exactly. Um, but we're in a place like Holcombe Hall, which is miles from here, and that was a big win as well. Um, and their venues, they've got about 5 venues, so— and again, perfect for us, tourist attraction, summers, heaving. Yeah, it's beautiful. Um, yeah, it's absolutely perfect for the brand, so That was a huge one. Um, and a lot of like garden centers and yeah, just great cafes, restaurants, and a little pub chain, which was a big win for me because again, you know, going the whole non-alcoholic thing, pubs are exactly where I would love to be, and restaurants. And they are abroad, obviously, they have pubs abroad, but restaurants, every restaurant abroad, all the menus, not in the UK. And I know it would do well from the ones we're in, from the restaurants we're in, because there isn't that non-carbonated, non-alcoholic option.

Fran Gresswell [00:21:56]:
It's all Coke, lemonade, busy. Um, so it ticks all the boxes. Um, it's essentially an adult J2O, like that's what we're looking in the same kind of category. So yeah, that's, that's the people, but they are the biggest people to convince because a lot of the times cafe owners, they tend to be women or they tend to be slightly younger. Pubs, landlords, decision makers, middle-aged men who drink beer and they want beer. Yeah, they— and it's very hard to convince them. Um, So yeah, that's, that's kind of the, probably the biggest barrier at the brand at the moment because we've identified that as a great place to be. There's no seasonality with the pubs either.

Fran Gresswell [00:22:30]:
No one's ordering a coffee in, in winter, so there's not the seasonality drop like we have in cafes. But it's the convincing has been tough.

Richard Hill [00:22:38]:
Well, good luck with that. We'll get you, we'll get you back on when we're, when we're, when I'm next over in wherever it may be and I'm like, oh my gosh, Riviera's in France or whatever.

Fran Gresswell [00:22:51]:
Yeah, one day.

Richard Hill [00:22:52]:
So you mentioned email, obviously emailing for the purpose of getting listings, but let's flip to D2C, let's flip to e-com. Um, you know, what's working well on the e-com side at the moment? You obviously mentioned email, so feel free to go into email, but I would love to know what else is working as well.

Fran Gresswell [00:23:09]:
I'd say the organic content's working really well. Um, so I do kind of— I do two pages. So I do a lot on TikTok, uh, just tends to be where our customers are. And we have the brand, which is, you know, quite a little bit more salesy, um, just tells about the non-alcoholic, the benefits, things like that. I then have a personal branding page, and I personally think personal branding is the way forward. It's huge at the moment, and it's a little bit chaotic. I show all the downs. I posted me like crying when I lost my court case, all of this.

Fran Gresswell [00:23:40]:
People love it. People, they love to see— they love—

Richard Hill [00:23:43]:
court case, what was this?

Fran Gresswell [00:23:44]:
Oh, with the manufacturer.

Richard Hill [00:23:45]:
Oh, this is— yeah, sorry.

Fran Gresswell [00:23:46]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, it's, uh, people want, want to see that you're a person. They want to see the raw things. They want to see the issues. They want to see the things you've overcome.

Richard Hill [00:23:56]:
Reality.

Fran Gresswell [00:23:57]:
The reality. And that has got me more business than any other marketing tool. Anything polished I've done, that has, that has won me the most business. Because, and even, you know, asking for help. I had, um, bit short-dated stock last year that I needed to shift, and I had a budget supermarket come in and want it for 10p. I can't make it for 10p. I would have been losing money per can, but obviously it was short shelf life. So I was debating, you know, do I just shift it all? I put it out on TikTok and I said, you know, I'm getting a bit panicky because I've got this pallet, I need to get rid of this pallet in a month.

Fran Gresswell [00:24:30]:
Something like 3 days later, I got an email from one of my wholesalers who is a they work in all the offices in London, the big offices. And one of the offices took the full palette, and it was for a Women's Day campaign. And they'd seen me on TikTok. We took it, and they took it, and for full price. Yeah, for full price. And, um, so obviously I nearly debated selling it for— would have barely made anything on it. Um, and I made—

Richard Hill [00:24:53]:
but your personal brand TikToks helped you to reach out?

Fran Gresswell [00:24:56]:
I just asked for help. Yeah, I said if anybody wants to order, wants to try it, now is the time because we need to shift it. Yeah, and somebody took the lot just because they had a connection or they— that was their job, or— and it's— that's the thing, asking for help, it works. And I think too many people try to be too polished nowadays, and actually people, people are past that. We're so past the polished.

Richard Hill [00:25:17]:
We hear this a lot, you know, it's obviously personal branding, fantastic, but then there's still obviously a lot of it, like that personality of the founder and whether they're willing to put themselves forward, and I get it. Um, you know, we've had a lot of founders on that are, you know, doing exceptionally well with the personal branding, you know, millions of views per TikTok and so forth, and, you know, building unbelievable brands. But then other founders that are also doing very, very well that like to be behind, behind the scenes more. And so it's, it's not necessary for everybody.

Fran Gresswell [00:25:49]:
I think the thing is, is, you know, there's a bit of a trap of you want the brand to be the brand. Yeah. And you support it with the behind the scenes. You don't want the brand to be you. Yeah, because I mean, it's so easy to have issues nowadays with saying the wrong thing or, yeah, um, maybe getting seen doing the wrong thing. And if the brand is tied to you, it's a very risky move for investors, for stockists. Um, so yeah, it's about propping it up with you not taking center stage. Like, the brand is the center stage, you're, you're behind it.

Fran Gresswell [00:26:21]:
Um, so that was a big thing. And also the other thing for me was I was very worried at first about coming across unprofessional or like I didn't know what I was doing. Um, but actually, people, they really, they are— they all— no one knows what they're doing, do you know what I mean? Everyone, everyone is learning. And, um, I got over that quite quickly because actually I found buyers were loving the videos and they were like, you know, we want to support a young girl who's like just in the trenches figuring it out.

Richard Hill [00:26:45]:
Yeah, but genuinely wants to do well and do the right thing and build a brilliant brand. But along the way, there's some hiccups and I'm talking about them.

Fran Gresswell [00:26:52]:
And exactly, and you only have to spend 5 minutes with me in a sales pitch to know we have got very good systems in place. Yeah, um, just because I'm, you know, getting up at 5 minutes to 9 doesn't mean we've not— we're not a very well-run brand.

Richard Hill [00:27:04]:
Um, so yeah, okay. And then email, then, are you doing anything, um, sort of— what would I say— anything that you would like to share with email, um, to obviously on the D2C side?

Fran Gresswell [00:27:15]:
So I love email, um, it's been an absolute goldmine for me. I definitely need to do more, um, struggling with timing a little bit with it, but it's been massive to prop up our, uh, kind of meta ads The issue with— obviously drinks are so expensive, um, don't really see a return until, I mean, healthy margins by 3. Um, so, but the issue was people weren't buying to get to their third purchase. It was 90 days, maybe more.

Richard Hill [00:27:41]:
So you're not in profit till 90 days.

Fran Gresswell [00:27:43]:
Yeah, which cash flow is tough. And I mean, margins are so low in food and drink, so that was— it was just non-negotiable. With email, we can obviously get that time down.

Richard Hill [00:27:51]:
Yeah.

Fran Gresswell [00:27:52]:
And we're encouraging people to buy again, um, because they are running out. It's just we're not on the radar. Like, they just don't think to do it until they have another occasion. So the email is really kind of— it's reminding people, it's propping up the fact that we're, uh, we're almost like a daily evening drink rather than, oh, if you're going to a party, you can take one can. So it's been huge with that. And also, again, with the emails, just being quite raw, um, just, you know, saying, uh, like, we're trying to shift this stock. Yeah, like, just quite—

Richard Hill [00:28:19]:
again, sharing that personal side of the reality, right? We've got this, we've got a lot of raspberry and whatever, do you want it?

Fran Gresswell [00:28:26]:
And also giving back to— so whenever I have a viral post, I email my customers and say, you were here first, here's 10% off. Like, I just think they, they want to know, like, they're day one. They've got— I've got all these new customers coming in, which is brilliant, but the ones that are on purchase 3 deserve to be kind of thanked for that because they've stuck with the brand. And a lot of the times they're sticking with the brand— again, we mentioned it's a luxury product— they're sticking with the brand because they want to support Yeah, um, because they could go out and get a slightly different drink, but you're—

Richard Hill [00:28:54]:
they're buying into the, the story of the brand and they're interested in what's happening next. Oh, I was supporting this young— this young girl from Newark started this brand back in 3 years. I bought a can at market and now she's doing this, and now that's all we drink in the house, and I told my friends, and yeah, now she's doing this. Have you ever seen what she's doing now? And that—

Fran Gresswell [00:29:13]:
so, um, are you doing things with subscription so you can subscribe and Yeah, we do. Um, again, I need to put more time behind it, um, a lot more kind of messaging behind it as well. Um, but I mean, we have, we have people who have been subscribed for a couple years. Yeah, it's still going. Um, we just don't really have the uplift in it. Yeah. Um, I think maybe we could need to look to do a campaign. And the other thing is I would really like for this year is to get the email subscriber list up.

Fran Gresswell [00:29:39]:
Um, because it's not anything crazy at the moment. I think around about 5,000, but the brand's been going quite a while. Like, it's I've been neglecting it.

Richard Hill [00:29:46]:
I think when you get your subscription dialed in, we'll sign up, we'll have our regular delivery from you for the team. Yeah, I think because for business we're buying all sorts of things for, you know, for the team, you know, for food and drink and so forth. And, you know, I think that'll be, you know, we'll definitely subscribe. Well, you let us know when that's all up and running. So great shares, you know, so you've shared an awful lot there, a very, very insightful journey, I think. I mean, I love it when we get somebody on that sort of started with an idea and now, you know, 300, 400 retail listings, sort of really, um, getting to grips with the D2C side. Um, I think what I'm intrigued about is, you know, obviously it's quite a, as you've alluded to, you know, a lower end price point. Costs everywhere are sort of rising and, um, some challenges, you know, obviously raw materials, labor, and so forth.

Richard Hill [00:30:41]:
How are you sort of navigating that? How are you maybe absorbing that, or how are you navigating that?

Fran Gresswell [00:30:46]:
It's really tough. I think the issue is we are getting— supplies are getting squeezed in every direction. And, you know, I mean, retailers maintain their 40%. Obviously, they have the issues elsewhere— minimum wage costs, rising costs, things like that. But on their food and drink listings, they're maintaining their 40%. So, you know, my manufacturers are putting their prices up to cover their wage bills, but I can't put my price up to retailers because there is obviously that— there's that barrier of they can't put the price up any higher. We can't charge more than £2 a can. People don't have the money to spend more than that on a drink.

Fran Gresswell [00:31:24]:
So I'm having to absorb the cost, and it's learning where to compromise. So I've never compromised on the, on the ingredients, and I'm not going to because that's what makes Riviera Riviera. Yeah. Um, it's that taste. I've not compromised on margin where possible, so I've maintained my price. We're just having to compromise elsewhere to get that bottom line up. Um, so things like, unfortunately, the marketing, having to go more organic, a bit more guerrilla marketing. Yeah.

Fran Gresswell [00:31:50]:
Um, and just, yeah, kind of pulling on kind of customers we've got, um, using a lot of word of mouth, things like that, because it is really tough. And you've just got to make sacrifices where you can, really. Um, but again, the knock-on— like, I could talk all day on it, I won't go into it— the knock-on of, of how the hospitality venues are struggling, I think people forget they, you know, they can see their local cafe closing down because they go in every week and it's suddenly gone. But they don't see the fact that that cafe's closed down, they would have spent £5,000 with me every few months.

Richard Hill [00:32:20]:
Yeah, the knock-on to the—

Fran Gresswell [00:32:21]:
it's the knock-on to everybody else, the supply chain. I mean, the staff who work there, like, everybody is— so many more people have been affected than just the cafes because of how tough it is for the cafes.

Richard Hill [00:32:32]:
What do we do? It's like, I see it, I see it, you know. Obviously we're right in the centre of Lincoln here, and I know of a You know, lovely lady that opened a cafe not far from here, and, you know, unbelievable sort of cafe she opened. And she could— she was sort of TikTok and Insta every day talking about what she was doing and getting people in. And, you know, beautiful place, you know, real nice outdoor area, you know, make beautiful coffees and other things. And, you know, beautiful spot. She's just sharing her life, sharing her soul with it all. And then, you know, I could see, you know, you could just see that she's struggling. I walked past, there's hardly anybody in there.

Richard Hill [00:33:10]:
I'm like, oh man, you know, and we go in a bit, but we can't, you know, we do what we can, not— yeah. And then she closed, and it's like, oh man, I really felt for her because I could see she's sort of given it every, you know, literally her life was this cafe. It's literally like 200, 300 yards from here, and it's like you could see she was pushing, pushing, pushing. Do you see sort of, um, you know, I don't know, I don't know what the question is, but it's like, guys, pretty tough, isn't it? So obviously you're supplying a lot of that market. You get you get some great customers, build some great relationships, but underlying there's this— call it what we like— cost of living, increased pressure from, you know, different costs, you know, the rates, the electric, and so forth. All the stuff that all businesses have, never-ending for them, trying to find extra margins somewhere. Or obviously you go down to nothing and you, you're working for nothing. That's not sustainable.

Richard Hill [00:33:59]:
Obviously you might have to do that through certain times, or you end up doing You know, you adjust your workforce and like you do, like you see doing a lot of the stuff yourself, but really you want to hire people to do things. So it's trying to get that balance, isn't it? But it's tough, isn't it? Really, really tough.

Fran Gresswell [00:34:12]:
It's heartbreaking because I obviously go in, there's quite a few I deliver locally, obviously elsewhere I don't, but just the local ones because it's just down the road. And I go in, it breaks my heart because they— I remember before the change in government, yeah, they were so excited. They were like, things are going to get better because people are going to be paid more, we're going to have more disposable income. And the pessimist in me was just, I just don't think things can change that quick. And they've got worse. And it's, I go in again now and there's nothing for them to hope for. They've got years of this more. And it's really tough.

Fran Gresswell [00:34:43]:
But it's also interesting on the flip side to see who is doing well and to see what they're doing. And I've got a cafe near me, which is brilliant. And they're always heaving. Like I don't go in. I will deliver on a Wednesday at like 11 and they're heaving. Is they're brilliant and they've had to really adapt. But it's, it's pretty cool. So they've, they've gone slightly younger audience because uni students still have the disposable income.

Fran Gresswell [00:35:04]:
They're not having to spend as much. They maybe have jobs, but they've got no dependents. They're not really thinking about saving for a mortgage at that age. And they're kind of going for the younger audience. They're doing a lot of takeouts to avoid the VAT and they do hot dessert nights and people queue around the car park for it in the rain because it's— and it all is, is a tray of school cake with some custard. But we come out after our dinner and we queue.

Richard Hill [00:35:26]:
I'll be there.

Fran Gresswell [00:35:27]:
Yeah, this is a thing, and it's reasonable pricing. It's— but it is heaving, and they are brilliant, and they've, they've just adapted. And it is— I mean, I don't think that's what they want to be doing on a Thursday night. They don't want to be stood in the rain selling school cake with custard, but it is propping up the, the quieter times. And yeah, they're honestly, they're brilliant, that cafe. And that's in York, is it? It is, yeah. And they don't have a lot of seating, but it's, it's even every time.

Richard Hill [00:35:55]:
It's popular.

Fran Gresswell [00:35:57]:
Yeah.

Richard Hill [00:35:57]:
Well, it's been brilliant having you on. Um, I think, um, as a business owner, we're all juggling so many things, aren't we? So many things like this never, never maybe stops. And I always like to ask the question of sort of what keeps you up at night. You know, maybe there's certain numbers and stats and things that you're focused on, but There's maybe two answers here, you know. There's like, what are the financial things that maybe keep you up at night? But then, you know, maybe what's the last couple of things that have actually kept you up at night?

Fran Gresswell [00:36:28]:
I think the boring answer is, uh, just P&L. Yeah, you know, obsessing over the P&L. Uh, are we gonna make our targets this month? So for me, we're just, um, starting to bring on investment now. Yeah. And before it was like, you know, we've got enough to pay for our next production, that's fine. Yeah, now we've got investors that are, you know, tracking the P&L, tracking the, the revenue. And obviously that, that's always something that keeps you up at night. Where can we find that extra grand to hit a target? And yeah, things like that.

Fran Gresswell [00:36:55]:
Where can we pull that through from? Um, and then just, it's just things like winning, winning listings. And, you know, and there's a lot of rejection. Um, I'm currently waiting on an answer today, you know. That's, it's things you think about. And yeah, fingers crossed. And I've had that one big break where we got into all the Lincolnshire co-ops, and that was amazing. And I'm just— I can't wait to have that feeling again of winning. Like, it was, it was incredible, that feeling.

Fran Gresswell [00:37:20]:
And that's what I'm thinking. I want that feeling again.

Richard Hill [00:37:22]:
It wasn't the deal. Yeah, I want to get another deal. You've done the graft of this particular listing, and now you're waiting for the answer. And where's the next one? We get that. What's the— like playing chess in your mind. If we get that one, then I've got that. This one's coming, so I need a week on that one.

Fran Gresswell [00:37:34]:
And making it work when it's in there. Because that's the important thing. The easy thing— it's not easy, it's been really hard— but the easy thing is getting the listing. It's after that you've got to get the customers, you've got to get the sales.

Richard Hill [00:37:43]:
Yeah, yeah, it's got to keep the listing.

Fran Gresswell [00:37:44]:
But I love that bit, that's, that's fun.

Richard Hill [00:37:47]:
So would you say you sleep quite well?

Fran Gresswell [00:37:50]:
Um, when things aren't— unless there's anything disastrously wrong, I'm pretty good at getting my, getting my time, putting things to the back of my mind.

Richard Hill [00:37:58]:
Yeah.

Fran Gresswell [00:37:58]:
Um, I do a lot of sport, it's the only time that I don't think about the business. Yeah. Um, So when I'm running around on the hockey pitch, I don't think about it because I'm running.

Richard Hill [00:38:07]:
Durham University, you're doing a lot of—

Fran Gresswell [00:38:08]:
did that? Yeah, uh, I play football as well, so Saturdays and Sundays are my— they're my time.

Richard Hill [00:38:13]:
What did you do at Durham? I'm curious.

Fran Gresswell [00:38:15]:
I did criminology. Criminology? Yeah, yeah, my son's girlfriend. Yeah, yeah, I didn't— I didn't even do, um, business at A-level or anything. I love Durham, um, and I'm— I obviously, it was very ruined by COVID, my experience, but of course Yeah, so it was a shame, but I loved the sport.

Richard Hill [00:38:30]:
And you have a bit of time there then, but you had to—

Fran Gresswell [00:38:33]:
yeah, um, second year was strikes, so we didn't have uni. And then COVID, we were sent home in March, so we missed kind of the nice bit where the sun's shining. Um, but you know, what can you do? I wouldn't have started the business without COVID, so yeah, I can't complain too much.

Richard Hill [00:38:49]:
Yeah, no, we've got a lot to thank COVID for. Some of us do, yeah, especially if you had an e-commerce business for that, for that time. I had an e-commerce agency. It was, uh, oh yeah, interesting times, but good times.

Fran Gresswell [00:39:00]:
Okay.

Richard Hill [00:39:00]:
Well, thank you so much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure. Um, we like to finish every episode with a book recommendation. Have a book to recommend to our listeners?

Fran Gresswell [00:39:09]:
Okay, so not a big reader, um, but there's one I want to read, so I haven't read it, but it's called The Ten Commandments of Business Failure, and it's next on my list. Yeah. Um, and it's from the ex-president of Coca-Cola, um, and it's essentially all the failings these incredible business men have— businessmen and businesswomen have made, and how to avoid them, and how the people who had the failures but now are up there, and what they say they, they should have done differently. And I just think, what's the best way to learn from people's mistakes?

Richard Hill [00:39:38]:
Especially Coca-Cola, because it's similar. Yeah, should be a few very specific tips in there for your industry. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Um, for those that want to find out more about Riviera, more about yourself, what's the best way to do that?

Fran Gresswell [00:39:51]:
On the website, uh, it's just riviericedtea.com. All our socials are the same, Riviera Ice Tea, and you can follow me on TikTok and see me, uh, doing my day in the lives.

Richard Hill [00:39:59]:
Well, make sure you all do that, guys. Right, well, thanks for coming in.

Fran Gresswell [00:40:02]:
Thank you for having me.

Richard Hill [00:40:04]:
If you enjoyed this episode, hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you are listening to this podcast. You're always the first to know when a new episode is released. Have a fantastic day, and I'll see you on the next one.